Nov. 2021: Farm Apprenticeships, Thanksgiving Food Safety, and Poultry Meat Quality

Introduction: Welcome to the Arkansas Food Farms and Forests podcast, the podcast bringing you the latest on food, fiber and forestry research from the Arkansas Agricultural Experiment station. The research arm of the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture.

Nick Kordsmeier: Hello and welcome to the first episode of our Arkansas Food Farms and Forests podcast. I’m Nick Kordsmeier director of communications for the Arkansas Agricultural Experiment station, which is the research arm of the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture.

In this first episode, you’ll hear from our science writer John Lovett, who spoke with the Center for Arkansas Farms and Food about the importance of educating the next generation of farmers. I spoke with Jennifer Acuff, assistant professor of Food, Microbiology and Safety and the Department of Food Science, to talk about some of the science behind common food safety recommendations, especially with Thanksgiving just around the corner. And Fred Miller, our science editor, sat down with Casey Owens, the Novus International Professor of Poultry Science, to discuss her research program and the progress she’s made towards fighting chicken meat quality defects like woody breast.

With that, I’ll pass it on to John and thank you again for joining us on the Arkansas Food Farms and Forest podcast.

John Lovett: Small farms are an integral part of the food supply chain, providing nutrient rich foods on a local level. But small farms and farming on the whole have changed in recent years, according to Heather Friedrich, program manager for the Center for Arkansas Farms and Food.

Heather Friedrich: Farming has changed so much in the past 50, 70, even 20 years. We don’t have those generational farms that we’ve had in the past where that knowledge is passed from father to son or grandparent to grandchild, or, you know … you learn from your neighbors.

John Lovett: That’s where the Center for Arkansas farms and Food comes in. The center, called CAFF for short, has a mission to train the next generation of farmers, especially farmers who don’t necessarily come from a farming background.

Heather Friedrich: It’s hard for someone who is not connected to those systems to learn from someone like that, that does have years of experience behind them.

John Lovett: CAFF is a service center of the Arkansas Agricultural Experiment Station, the research arm of the U of A System Division of Agriculture. It supports local food entrepreneurs and increases small farm viability through experiential learning, Friedrich said. CAFF offers two major programs a beginner’s farm school and an apprenticeship program. Applications for the 2022 apprenticeship program are due by December first, 2021.

Heather Friedrich: But if you are someone that does want to go into farming, you do want to produce fruits and vegetables because that’s what we’re really focusing on. If you do want to grow how and you’re new to this kind of career path, how do you how do you get that knowledge and experience and build those connections? And so, you know, those are some of the big reasons that we develop the center because we do see that there is a big need to foster that next generation of farmers.

John Lovett: CAFF works closely with the Northwest Arkansas Land Trust in the Northwest Arkansas Food Conservancy to connect new farmers with land resources where they can grow food and help get the food to market, grocery stores and in restaurants.

Heather Friedrich: The food system has a lot of different key players. There’s a lot of moving parts and pieces, and so for us to focus on the farmer’s side of things … would be kind of an incomplete picture. You know, once we do have graduates of the program, we also need land for them to farm on and we need markets for them to plug into. And so, by partnering with other resources that are supporting farmers, you know, we just increase their chances of success.

John Lovett: Friedrich emphasized that successful farming depends on more than just working with the land. There’s also a substantial business side to being a farmer that requires knowledge of marketing, networking and bookkeeping.

Heather Friedrich: It’s just critical for farmers to get experience and get a glimpse into that side of the operation because a lot of farmers go into this because they’re really, you know, they’re passionate about working with the land and they are passionate about working with the plants. but those business components are a little bit more challenging for them. It’s less natural.

John Lovett: The Center for Arkansas Farms and Food created a curriculum for their farm school students that calls for creation of a business plan that helps build their brand online.

Heather Friedrich: We have a really strong track in our farm school that really helps these aspiring farmers to learn what the business side of running a farm looks like.

John Lovett: Calf business instructor Brooke Anderson said business management is integrated into every part of owning a farm. Over the past two years of the COVID pandemic, more people have shopped online, so farmers also need to know how to market their goods through the internet and on social media platforms.

Brooke Anderson: When we’re working with these new beginner farmers, we’re really focused on making sure that they understand what their mission is with farming, why are they wanting to do this, and then helping them communicate that to their customers. So that brings in that marketing side of things where they’re communicating what they’re growing and then having the customer with that feedback of where they want to buy that so that they can better strategize on from a business perspective.

John Lovett: The Center for Arkansas Farms and Food recently graduated its first class of five farm school students and just wrapped up the second season of apprenticeship. Anderson said most of the participants are planning on continuing their agricultural journey.

Brooke Anderson: Most of the graduates of the program are going to be continuing their agricultural experience, whether that’s with farm ownership. A few people have started leasing some land and growing, or also managing farms for other people. So it’s really exciting to see their farm journeys really taking off.

John Lovett: Anyone interested in learning more about CAFF programs, Please visit CAFF.UADA.EDU. Applications for the 2022 apprenticeship program are due on Dec. 1, 2021.

Nick Kordsmeier: With frozen turkeys, leftovers and homemade pies, Thanksgiving is the perfect time to talk about food safety. Food safety expert and microbiologist Jennifer Acuff said food safety is critical to keeping consumers safe.

Jennifer Acuff: We all eat food and they’re all subject to some kind of contamination or risk every now and then. so my research gets to kind of pick apart those risks and try to figure out how we can protect consumers.

Nick Kordsmeier: Acuff is an assistant professor with the Department of Food Science for the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture and the Dale Bumpers College of Food, Agriculture and Life Sciences at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville. In addition to extension and teaching appointments, she conducts research for the Division of Agriculture’s research arm, the Arkansas Agricultural Experiment station. Acuff’s current research focus is on food safety, especially in low-moisture foods.

Jennifer Acuff: That can include anything from powders to nuts, dried fruits and even spices. And so I look at how bacteria are going to contaminate these foods and then how they survive on them, as well as how we can remove them once they’re there. So, a lot of my research involves a really kind of interesting group of foods that people don’t necessarily assume would be risky. And I’m not saying they should, but there’s always an inherent risk.

Nick Kordsmeier: Acuff said her food safety tips have made her popular among family and friends.

Jennifer Acuff: It’s fun. It’s fun because, you know, it’s it feels like so many parts of my job are fun facts that I take with me everywhere. And so people like to ask me all the time about eating organic or local produce. And you know what temperatures to cook their meats to. And I get asked all the time about my food safety tips. I think sometimes it’s a bit of a buzz kill. if you’re at a dinner with a group of people and then you’re explaining to them why the thing that they’re eating might be unsafe. So, I always have to check myself and remember not to be the party pooper, but I really enjoy talking to people about food safety. I mean, it’s been a passion of mine for a really long time, So, it’s just fun to share that.

Nick Kordsmeier: Those fun facts underscore the importance of consumers taking charge of food safety in their lives.

Jennifer Acuff: It’s important that everybody knows what food safety really is because it’s a really multidisciplinary, interactive discipline and concept. And so it involves a wide variety of people. And, you know, I think the most important part of that puzzle is just about the consumers. Making sure that everybody understands what they can control and what part they play in that puzzle is really important to me.

Nick Kordsmeier: While food safety is important year-round, Thanksgiving does carry some particular food safety risks. Thawing that frozen turkey is one of them.

Jennifer Acuff: The safest way to thaw a turkey is doing it well in advance and ahead of time. So, the best way to thaw that is probably in the fridge for several days. There are calculators online that can actually help you figure out. OK, how long does this need to thaw in my fridge if it’s, you know, And so, you know, the weight of the turkey impacts how quickly it will thaw. Also, thawing it in the sink with very cold water can work, but a lot of times in holidays we’re preparing a lot of foods, there’s a lot of traffic in the kitchen and a turkey taking up a whole sink is a little inconvenient. So, I don’t really recommend that way just for convenience’s sake.

Nick Kordsmeier: One particularly risky way to thaw the turkey is to leave it out at room temperature.

Jennifer Acuff: The outsides are going to thaw first, and the outsides are going to thaw and get to the point that they’re at room temperature. And we have something called the danger zone in food safety and food microbiology, and that refers to the temperature at which bacteria are most happily growing. So, when you thaw a turkey at room temperature, the outside of it and then gradually toward the inside, can get as high as complete room temperature, around 70 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit, and the danger zone is 40 to 140 degrees Fahrenheit. So, it sits in that danger zone and allows any bacteria that are on the raw turkey to grow to really high numbers. So, we want to make sure that however you thaw it you keep it below refrigeration temperatures, which is below 40 degrees.

Nick Kordsmeier: Acuff said there are many intrinsic and extrinsic factors like oxygen, water and nutrient availability, and temperature that affect the growth of bacteria. But temperature is one of the easiest for consumers to control.

Jennifer Acuff: A lot of the foodborne pathogens that we will get sick from really enjoy our body temperature, right? And that kind of makes sense that they’re functioning very well at our body temperature and that’s how they get us sick so easily. And so they’re already, you know, accessing nutrients from that food. And if the temperature is just right or if the oxygen levels are right for them to grow, then they can really go wild in that environment.

Nick Kordsmeier: With that in mind, Acuff said, you really don’t want to leave those hot or cold leftovers out all day.

Jennifer Acuff: So, a lot of people have kind of almost a family tradition with holiday leftovers, and that is leaving them out all day and letting everybody, you know, come by and graze on them throughout and watch the football games or the parades and everything. And that’s not the best practice. If that food came out of the oven two hours ago it needs to go into the fridge pretty quickly. So that’s really what we recommend for storing leftovers, is get them into containers where maybe, if we’re talking about a really thick stew, get it into a shallow container because it’ll cool down quicker. If we’re talking about any kind of food that’s being handled, especially like a turkey that’s been cut up, a lot of times people aren’t wearing gloves in their own kitchen. Right? And so they’re handling the turkey and cutting it up, and you might have washed her hands, but your hands aren’t sterile, so they’re not completely without bacteria. And so as you as you handle that turkey after about two hours or so, some of the bacteria that came from your hands might have grown to an amount that could really get somebody sick. So refrigerate leftovers after about two hours even though everybody wants to keep them out you know for as long as possible. It’s really the best way to make sure you don’t have some unhappy guests later.

Nick Kordsmeier: Baked goods, however, often fall into another category of foods called shelf stable foods. The environmental conditions in these foods inhibit bacterial growth, Acuff said.

Jennifer Acuff: What contributes to this shelf stable label has to do with things like water content, or what we call water activity, and also pH. So how much acid is there, and also desiccation. So water activity and desiccation kind of go hand-in-hand. So if we’re talking about a loaf of bread, right, that doesn’t have a lot of moisture in it. And so it can sit out on the countertop, though you might have some mold issues later, right? Because if you leave it uncovered, eventually, mold can grow. But in terms of bacteria, they’re not going to like that environment very much because there’s not enough water for them to be happy and grow. And so baked goods like breads have that kind of desiccated aspect of it.

Nick Kordsmeier: Other desserts and baked goods like jams or fruit pies may have a high moisture content, but are still considered shelf stable because they have a low water activity.

Jennifer Acuff: Water activity refers to the water that is free in the food and not bound by something else, but something like a jam or jelly that has a high sugar content, that sugar actually binds to the water molecules, and when it binds to it, the bacteria can’t access it.

Heather Friedrich: If it doesn’t have a high enough sugar content, though, these rules don’t apply. Pumpkin pie, for example, might need to be refrigerated.

Jennifer Acuff: I personally prefer my pumpkin pie refrigerated and cold anyway, so I don’t usually even have this problem. Pumpkin pie is a little bit different. It doesn’t have quite as high a sugar content, or if you think about the ingredients, the pumpkin pie filling itself might have some sugar, but not nearly as much as like a pecan pie. And so I can’t give you the exact water activity levels of those, but I would recommend keeping the pumpkin pie refrigerated. But I think if the sugar content is high enough, you might not need to. But if it’s got whipped cream on it, I definitely get it into the fridge.

Nick Kordsmeier: Acuff said that using a tip sensitive meat thermometer and avoiding cross-contamination between ready-to-eat foods and raw foods are two more critical food safety recommendations. But one of the most important tips is to remember a skill we all learned at the start of the pandemic.

Jennifer Acuff: It has to be mentioned, and I can’t overstate the importance of hand hygiene during the pandemic. It seems like we saw a potential dip in foodborne illness because people were finally washing their hands the way that we should all be washing them all the time. And so I think we’re starting to kind of slacken on that a little bit as we’re kind of coming on to hopefully the other side of this health crisis. And so I’m hoping that people still keep their hand-washing habits so that we don’t see a huge uptick. There’s a lot of foodborne illness that just gets transmitted from person to person, and food plays a part in that. but using good hand hygiene can go a really long way in protecting your family.

Nick Kordsmeier: So stay safe out there. Thanksgiving feasters, and thank you to Jennifer Acuff for sharing your expertise.

Fred Miller: For more than 20 years, the main thrust of Casey Owens’ research has been improving meat quality for the poultry industry. And that’s good because during that time, the poultry industry has risen to the challenges of increasing consumer preferences for more and bigger chicken meat and growing export demands to feed a hungry world. But that growth has come at a cost. Processors are seeing increases in meat defects that cost the industry millions. Dr. Owens is the Novus International Professor of Poultry Science at the Arkansas Agricultural Experiment Station, the research arm of the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture and the Center of Excellence for Poultry Science. She investigates meat quality defects in broiler meat, building a base of knowledge that will help develop novel solutions for this segment of America’s food supply. Dr. Owens, thank you for being with us today.

Casey Owens: Thank you for having me here today. I look forward to this opportunity.

Fred Miller: I want to talk with you today about your research in meat quality. And I wonder if you could just start off by just kind of giving us an overview of the issue of meat quality that you’re dealing with, and why it’s important in the industry.

Casey Owens:  My area of research is with poultry meat quality, I specifically have been looking at broiler chickens over the last, oh gosh, almost 20 years. I never exclude turkeys, but I get the opportunity to work with boilers a lot more. And so a lot of my research has gravitated towards quality and looking at quality defects and ways to prevent that or to assess it in order to have a quality control type system or use that in research or whatnot. So more recently, in the last, I’d say, ten years, we’ve been looking at white striping, woody breast and some other issues that are affecting meat texture and some of the composition of the meat.

Fred Miller: Can you tell us a little bit about how those meat texture defects would affect consumer enjoyment of chicken meat?

Casey Owens: Sure. So white striping doesn’t affect the consumer appeal in terms of eating quality to a great degree. It can maybe lead towards less juiciness, though we haven’t really assessed that a great deal. I don’t know that a consumer could really tell. It could affect yields by decreasing water holding capacity. With woody breasts. it’s generally we have a little bit more fat and connective tissue in that type of breast meat. And so in more severe cases, when we have more of that connective tissue present, it can give the consumers where they perceive the meat texture as chewy or have a grizzly … with connective tissue in there. And so it kind of changes the texture from a normal chicken textured texture that is typically tender.

Fred Miller: And in what ways, then, does it affect the poultry industry in terms of the value of their product or how it affects their business in that regard?

Casey Owens: So woody breast, we can observe that in the industry in different degrees of severity, meaning that in the most severe cases, there’s just a lot more connective tissue, a little bit more fat and so forth. And that can lead to those texture qualities that are negative to the consumers. And so the instance of that product has been up to upwards of 20% in certain plants, certainly not that high in other plants. Sometimes it’s related to the size of the bird that’s produced, and in those most severe cases, it has the worst textural changes associated with them. And so oftentimes plants will divert that type of product away from whole muscle products and so into something like chicken nuggets or something in that manner that the textural issue is not as impaired as apparent as it would be in whole muscle product.

Fred Miller: And that but that as far as the industry’s perspective, that’s a lower value product for them then, isn’t it?

Casey Owens: Yes, potentially. Usually, whole muscle products are more premium in nature, but the industry certainly does a lot of breading of products. And so there’s different avenues for meat to go to fulfill the orders. And so if we can divert some of the most severe cases into these types of products and the textural issues are not as noticeable as it would be in whole muscle products

Fred Miller: When it comes to the causes of these issues, I know you’ve been looking into that at least have some suspects, if not some outright perpetrators. So what are you, what are you looking at in terms of causes of some of these defects?

Casey Owens: Yeah, So we’ve been like I said, we’ve been studying this for about ten years. We saw the white striping first and then wood breast came a few years later where we saw more of that issue. And during this last ten years or so, birds have been growing a little bit bigger because of longer durations of growth, but also birds The broilers that we have in the industry do grow fast and very efficiently speaking. So there’s always a bit of protein turnover in the muscle. And what will happen is that kind of, in a nutshell, is that when there is protein degradation, such as the muscle proteins, if the muscle can’t repair itself soon enough then those muscle proteins can be replaced with fat and connective tissue to fill in some voids. And so that’s why we get those compositional changes.

Fred Miller: Is that like scarring of a kind of scarring or is it something different?

Casey Owens: It’s not necessarily say scarring but it is filling in those voids rather than having enough time for more familiar tissue, like the muscle tissue to actually be repaired, then those other constituents of the meat kind of fill in. So, there’s also a lot of research out and in the research field to assess really the mechanisms behind why these changes are occurring. So, some of it has to do with oxidative stress? We haven’t really found the exact reasons behind it, but there’s a lot of research going in those areas, and some of it may be genetic. Some of it may be growth related, but we’re trying to get to those reasons so that we can, we as an industry can help reduce the problems, and I think we’ve seen some improvement over the last couple of years of decreased incidence in the industry, as well.

Fred Miller: Is there other areas or effects from stress, like if the birds are stressed from heat or discomfort of any kind. Or is that …

Casey Owens: No really the impact of stress on the bird would actually potentially improve it, improve it because it’s all right. If body weight is decreased, and stress normally reduces body weight, then generally we’ll see a little bit less of that severe incidence.

Fred Miller: Then can you tell me in terms of some of the things you’re thinking about as solutions for this? some things that are on the horizon are potential ways to resolve this type of defect.

Casey Owens: So, I know the breeders are interested in looking at this and that’s kind of out of my area. And also from a management system, nutritionists have been looking at ways to feed the birds differently. it usually results in slowing the bird down and increasing the well … decreasing the efficiency of that bird, which is … you want to increase the efficiency overall, so decreasing it leads to having a lower bird weight or more feed associated with it. So that’s just a management tool. I’m not a nutritionist either, so I’m not really in those fields. But from the processing standpoint we are looking at ways to detect the problem because right now they’re having to sort. If plants are sorting, they are doing it by hand. And if we are able to develop a system that they could do rapidly in the plants that could assist, especially if there are some customers that have a higher standard, or want less of the woody breast in their products. So, some of those we’re trying to mimic what we would do with hand, or feeling those fillets by hand. And some of that can be used by instruments like compression force, where we measure. We have a force reader that will compress that fillet and we get a force measurement that’s related to the compression of that fillet. Other things that we have looked into is looking at further processed items. So, we’ve been looking at chicken nuggets, for example, like a grounded type of product. That’s what I said earlier that if you can divert this whole muscle product into a ground type product, then the effects are not as great from a sensory aspect. And we’ve also looked at it in terms of use in deli loaves, and those can be more chunked than forms of some whole muscle pieces. but smaller, and you’ve got it mixed in with some normal meat. And so the effects aren’t as great. So we’ve looked at multiple things in that nature. I have been involved in some nutritional related studies, but it’s still kind of a management tool. And if we usually if something is going to help reduce woody breast generally, or reduce the weight of the bird. And so if we can find something that does not affect the weight that reduces woody breast and that’s going to be a good potential tool.

Fred Miller: I guess we should let folks know that these defects in meat don’t present … I mean, like, you speak to this because you’re the expert, I’m just winging it here, no pun intended. But these defects in the meat, they’re not really of a health concern for the consumer, right? They’re not going to … there’s not anything in the gene in the meat because of these defects that is harmful or unhealthy for consumers.

Casey Owens: Right. So there’s no food safety concerns. This is really a quality issue. So, I said the composition does change, but it’s a very small change, especially with white striping. We can see increased fat levels, but still a relatively small change. You know, maybe a 2% increase like from 4% to 6% or … and I don’t have any numbers exactly in front of me, but it’s not an overwhelming change to that. So, the composition will change slightly, but not from a food safety standpoint. is there going to be an issue. There have been some studies to look at some of the microbiological effects, and there’s been no evidence to show that that there’s any harm associated with them.

Fred Miller: OK, good. What are some of the I guess … let me start again because I was about to ask you a question you already answered, because you’re that much ahead of me, which is a good thing. Anyway, I wanted to talk a little bit about this, the research you’re doing with accelerometers. And these accelerometers, they’re basically an electronic instrument that’s commonly found in smartphones, smartwatches and this kind of thing. In fitness devices. Is that correct?

Casey Owens: That’s it, yes.

Fred Miller: And so how are they being applied to this research in poultry meat quality? And what are you looking for it to do?

Casey Owens: So, I began a collaboration with some folks in the computer science engineering group. Dr. Thi Hoang Ngan Le a computer engineer with the University of Arkansas and then Dr. Yan Huang, an animal science was involved in this collaboration as well. And so we developed a proposal to look at these accelerometers to assess the meat and to assess really the vibration patterns of the meat. So, when we apply some sort of force or movement to a table that the fillet is sitting on, how does that vibration come through the fillet? So that’s one aspect of looking at it and the on a debone-meat kind of platform.

Fred Miller: As a as a sort of detection during processing?

Casey Owens: Yes, to look at as far as detection. So, this is very early stages of the work that we’re doing. And so, you have accelerometers are used in like a Fitbit or Apple Watch or on your iPhone. And really, so our preliminary work came from using an iPhone, but there’s a lot of data that comes from that. And so, it was really nice to work with the computer science folks. They really know those aspects, but I try to apply it in a way that could potentially lead to detection methods in the plant. We’ve also tried to look at detecting this in a live bird, and so that’s a little bit more challenging. And so the results of this are really still underway. We don’t have enough research to even give you any results at this time. But if that was … if we were able to use accelerometers to detect it in a live bird, it could potentially help breeders or in research settings. Not anything a producer would use if they’ve got a full house of birds to go through and detect. But it could be a tool in selection procedures and so on and so forth.

Fred Miller: So they could say weed out the birds where they’re detecting defects while they’re still alive and know that those wouldn’t necessarily be a good cross for breeding.

Casey Owens: Right, if it were just to be in genetic families or something. It’s not even… I don’t even know that we know it, how inheritable it is in terms of is it in this genetic family? Is in this other genetic family> Because we see this problem in most boilers across the United States, in the world, regardless of what strain, there’s two primary breeders in the in the world. And so we see it across the board. So it’s not that it’s in this particular breed versus this other breed in commercial boilers really are using the same breed. They’re just different families. But there’s two major companies out there that are used so

Fred Miller: So, it might help the breeders in terms of maybe finding a way to reduce or eliminate the problem. But it’s not really going to help in terms of identifying existing breeds.

Casey Owens: It would not really be useful to a producer that has a full house of birds or going to market. Let’s put it that way.

Fred Miller: He wouldn’t want to be going around strapping those on their wrists, right?

Casey Owens: Yeah, for sure. But that would also be looking at vibration patterns that come through the bird. But it is more complicated with the live bird because there’s these larger movements like a wing flap or respiration, even. We’re trying to get to these minute movements through the … of the breast fillet because the breast fillet, when it has a lot of collagen and connective tissue and it has different vibration, a vibration pattern to it, it’s a little stiffer, harder, more firm. And that’s kind of the characteristics that we look for when we are palpating that fillet, is that that characteristic characteristically has a harder touch to it.

Fred Miller: And those instruments could measure those differences. And if you could identify those patterns in particular, then you would have a way of detecting a better method, maybe a more precise method of detecting these issues.

Casey Owens: Right, right.

Fred Miller: Interesting. So what’s down the road for you in terms of research in this area? What are your next steps?

Casey Owens: Well, we’re still working on the accelerometer research and then we also in and BioAg Engineering with the Division of Agriculture. We have Dr. Dongyi Wang, who’s just joined the faculty and his expertise is an image analysis and robotics. And so we’ve been working with him and I’ve actually introduced him to the Computer Science group that I’ve been working with to see if we can collaborate on a bigger project and if we have the ability to even measure the amount of force on the fillet — just like our our stationary system that we can use when we measure compression force — If he can use that with his robotic arm, then that’s another way to possibly use that in the plant to detect that because it mimics our hand palpation systems. Last year, we did, in the last couple of years I should say, we develop some relationships between carcass shaped features, used image analysis to detect woody breasts in the fillets. And so we received a patent on that. And we’re kind of in the midst of moving that forward as we go forward, have to find a collaborative partner.

Fred Miller: Can you describe a little bit more about how that works, how the image analysis can detect woody breast? from a non defect containing.

Casey Owens: Right, right. So there’s already vision grading systems out in the industry that look for size and shape and defects, maybe like a missing wing or to help gray carcasses. That’s already existing technology. And so what we did in our lab was to look at the shape features of the breast on the bird. So sometimes that breast has more like a U-shaped. Now remember that the birds are really hanging upside down. And so it’s kind of a rounded shape at the top of the breast when it’s hanging upside down versus more of a pointed shape. And so the rounded shape breasts generally have a higher probability to be woody breast than more of the pointed shaped breasts. And so that just goes back to fillet yield, and how much yield is on that bird and how much it’s grown and developed in terms of the breast meat. And so those larger breasts tend to be a little bit more woody or have the potential to be more woody. And so we looked at thousands of images and we compared those to the the debone breast fillet scores. We have a scoring system that we use and we found some really good relationships in terms of predictability for that particular system. And so the goal would be to incorporate algorithm or the mathematical part that I’m not very sure about, but those relationships into existing vision systems to potentially sort or at least give a heads up to the debone operations that, ‘hey, we’re going to have a little bit more woody breast today’ or potentially give information back to like live production. What factors in the live production scheme are contributing to more woody breast in one flock versus another?

Fred Miller: Mm hmm. Is it is that the difference in shape, because the those connective tissues and things that fill in those gaps caused the meat to hang differently?

Casey Owens: No, not necessarily. It’s just that the more as the birds get bigger with more fully breast fillet yield they have, the higher probability to have more severe woody breast. And so when there’s when the birds have this U-shaped, it’s hard to explain on a podcast, but those the breast fillet as more full and it carries throughout from the top of the the top of the fillet throughout the end of the fillet. And rather than losing a lot of yield on the end of the fillet, it’s carrying through more so and those generally will have a higher probability to be what be woody because they growing well and a lot of protein turnover during that process and whatnot. OK.

Fred Miller: All right. Well, thank you very much. This is interesting. Is there anything we haven’t covered that you think would be important?

Casey Owens: Well, I don’t know. That’s a good question. I continue to love poultry meat and look at ways to improve things as we go. And I’m just a proponent for eating chicken so people shouldn’t be afraid to eat chicken or be deterred by it. You know, I’m sure having a negative eating experience in a restaurant can deter somebody to eat chicken again, or at that particular place or whatnot because of woody breasts. But there’s a lot of a lot of good quality products out there. I try a lot of chicken out there.

Fred Miller: So that’s what I’d heard as somebody who told me that you like to go around and try chicken sandwiches in different places. Kind of informal survey.

Casey Owens: Right. So chicken sandwiches are big key product for our industry and for fast food restaurants. And so this last spring and in the last yea,r actually Or  the last year or two there’s been some chicken sandwich wars and part of that started with Popeyes versus Chick-Fil-A. And that began a couple of years ago. So the there’s been a quite a big increase in the number of chicken sandwiches in the marketplace. And so this past spring, I went on what I call the chicken sandwich tour and started trying all the new ones because there was a lot of new ones that were coming out. And so I involved my class in that process and kind of pointed out all the positives of things that I didn’t have any sandwiches I hated. Certainly, there were sometimes that I thought they probably could have been better, and I usually gave those products a second try and they were, you know, just sometimes you go through a restaurant and, you know, don’t get this high quality as you want, and it may just be that day or that shift or whatnot. But I have a lot of really good ones out there, so don’t ask me my favorite one because I love them all.

Fred Miller: It’s kind of your own little survey tour, right?

Casey Owens: And I really just want to promote chicken, and that’s what I like to do with my family and friends and whatnot.

Fred Miller: Oh, great. Dr. Owens, I sure do appreciate you being with us today. And keep up the good work because there are a lot of people out there like myself included, who really enjoy chicken. And we’re always looking for the, you know, the best quality, and I’m glad you’re on the job.

Casey Owens: All right. Well, thank you for having me and keep eating chicken. Great. Thanks so much.

Nick Kordsmeier: Thank you to all of our faculty and staff for joining us on our first episode of the Arkansas Food Farms and Forest podcast. As always, please visit our research news website at AAES.UADA.EDU/NEWS to check out some of our other stories this month, including a story about how our Aroma 17 rice variety was a key ingredient in an award winning gin produced by a Mississippi company. And a story about the state of weedy rice research. Just a reminder again, applications for the Center for Arkansas Farms and Food Apprenticeship Program close on Dec. 1. So be sure to visit CAFF.UADA.EDU to learn more and apply. Thanks again for joining us on the Arkansas Food Farms and Forest podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe and stay tuned for more great episodes in the coming months.

Conclusion: The Arkansas Food Farms and Forests podcast is produced by the Arkansas Agricultural Experiment Station, the research arm of the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. Visit AAES.UADA.EDU for more information.